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Radio Hayah speaks with Khalil Shokeh
I’m with Khalil Shokeh from Dar Al Sabagh Diaspora studies and research centre, Now Khalil what is the centre?
This is an initiative that started a long time ago, through the efforts of George Al Ama, The collector, a famous collector and bank of Palestine when the issue was about how to connect with the Diaspora, and so bank of Palestine was eager to open offices in Southern America, mainly Chile and so the idea was through George involvement because he works as a consultant for bank of Palestine to contact the Palestinians who are in the Diaspora and as you know and everybody must know in southern America, in Northern America we have approximately quarter of a million Palestinians from Bethlehem, Beit Jala, Beit Sahour area.
So the Inishitive started to grow up more and more, and then our friend George contacted MR Alberto Qaisis, Alberto Qaisis is from Bethlehem of course and most of them are from Bethlehem area as we said, So Alberto lived in this house because this is his uncle’s house and his wife is originally from the same family SABAGH family, he was contacted and he welcomed the idea, I studied it thoroughly and then he decided, Why not! Lets buy it back because this is my ancestors and my grandfathers and uncles house and that is what happened and of course George followed up the situation with Bank of Palestine and with him they were able to negotiate with the tenants who were living here or have bought apartments, we are talking about a specific house, one of the rare houses in Bethlehem at that time at the end of the 19th Century we are talking during the Ottoman period, where there is a private Hosh, and You know what the word Hosh means, Hosh is in the old time you will find hosh for example Hosh Handal, Hosh Qawawseh, Hosh Asyrian hosh, this is a place where there are different families living in it, most of these families are related, blood related or somehow cousins or what have you, But this house has its own private Hosh, 3 brothers in the house with an open space in the ceiling and so on and having its own entrance to the hosh, this is why it is private, We will show you around now, when you go in you go into the right side to the Salon if you want to say it in this case and so they wouldn’t bother the people who are outside, Wives, girls and kids who are playing in the yard.
The ground floor was built at the end of the 19th Century 1890, something like that and then the second floor was built during the end of the Ottoman period which is between 1912 , 13 , 14 something in that period and then the third floor we will see it now was build at the beginning of the British mandate period. And as you know people weren’t so rich enough to build everything in one time you know, it took them a while because they were investing….. as you know people invest in having their own houses, It is part of the culture here, to have your own house, to build it with your own hands and so on.
Bethlehem is famous for its stone quarries and part of the stone you can feel the difference in stone, the white stones, the blue stones and the red stones which is famous in all the Bethlehem area for those who were at least becoming more and more well situated financially, you could say rich somehow and you find the palaces and famous houses are in red stone.
Mr Alberto Qasis when he bought the house he presented it to be a centre for Diaspora, to connect and reconnect with the Palestinians in Diaspora, When you say Palestinians as I mentioned before we are saying about Palestinians from the Bethlehem area and this is where our job comes in, Besides answering the requests and whatever , because we are talking about 3rd and 4th generation of those immigrants who know they are Palestinians whatever they have citizenship from, Chile, Porto Rica, Bolivia, Honduras and so on but since they are eager to know, “since I am Palestinian, I have a roots here somehow” and this is where we come in. As a centre we try through our online face answer their requests, do some research about the family, their families origin, where they were living, their houses and so on, In addition we have access, we were successful in that, all the churches archives, we are talking from the 18th century 19th century, beginning of the 19th century and so on, a lot of the church archives has the names, the baptism time and who were the fathers and so on and so on.
In addition we have access to the last ottoman census about population in this area, so through this means we are able to do research and answer the requests of those who are in Diaspora and so far we are succeeding and we are doing it without any cost Just we wanted to as I said connect and re connect and increase the bonds between those who left the country at the end of the 19th century and couldn’t come back, This is a political issue, I will talk about it later on.
So our Job nowadays we welcome groups and individuals who are coming from South America through our connection with all societies and institutions official and what have you and in the same time we are answering their requests and we have an online access to whoever wants to know and we have a lot of posts every day going up, who comes in and what is new to us, In addition we have an instagram, this is our job nowadays.
Are there many Palestinians living outside the land and do they still feel a connection to the land even though they are outside?
Yes, because of our centre we increased this connection with them, they are all curious to know what is going on in Bethlehem and so on, so any events that take place like Christmas parades or Christmas season or Christmas holidays, we shoot videos and send it and put it online so that they will have access and as I mentioned we have a lot of requests coming in from their side, requesting about their roots their families, they give us the names of their great, great grandfather who left for example at the end of the 19th century and couldn’t come back, “Can you give us who remained from this family” and what have you, This is our job and we are doing a fine job, I am not saying we are perfectly doing things but we are doing it somehow, and of course part of our future consideration depending on whether we have funding, we are trying to be in touch with them in their conventions whenever that takes place, for example in Peru recently there was the Traditions, its all southern American Palestinians meet in this place, buy and sweets and hear lectures and enjoy the music and the Palestinian kitchen and so on, We are in touch with them but we are looking for funding so that we are able to visit all these southern American countries, because in each country there is either a Palestinian club or society that deals with the Palestinians that are living there, They are in good positions financially and economically speaking and so we are looking to make an MOU with them at a later stage, to exchange the information because we are starting to build a data base for all Palestinians who left Bethlehem area, starting from the end of the 19th Century till now a days , We hope we receive some funding somehow.
Which country has the most Palestinians outside of here?
Chile has the biggest number of Palestinians, They are very powerful economically speaking, they are in the Parliament, members of parliament; they have a saying in the policy of the country. Recently the President of Chile came in with his delegation were 2 famous Palestinians, they are big enough there. Just to mention in Soccer the Deportivo Palestino club in Chile is the champion of last seasons football tournament.
Are there a lot of Palestinians that are refugees that are outside of the land?
Now talking about those who are in the Southern American, they are not considered as refugees they are Diaspora who couldn’t come back due to the British policy of citizenship thing which didn’t allow them because it was clear cut the British main job in Palestine was to have the access for the Jewish Immigration and to prepare the Jewish and the Israelis if you want (in this case not Jewish) to have their own land against our will and wishes, We don’t want to talk about Politics now in this case, So a lot of then couldn’t come back due to this even though they applied and always the British consulate in that areas and that county, a lot of cases and documents about that will say we don’t have instruction to deal with you, you have to wait and so on until the time period pass and a lot of them weren’t able to come back because in my opinion specifically as an historian of the Bethlehem area most of those who left they didn’t leave just for the sake of staying there, No on the contry, to have their businesses, to market their products and so on and come back.
So was it economic reasons why they left in the first place?
Yes, yes because as you know during the Ottoman period people weren’t sufficiently able to survive because of life in general they didn’t have access to outside world and when the Ottomans started the reform movement this is when the Bethlehemite and a lot of Palestinians in general started moving outside their counties, Marketing their products, when you talk about Bethlehem market their products, the Bethlehem area, you know the Mother of pearl and so on and so on, we had people started having their offices in London, In Paris mainly, Name it in any city of the European countries and those who were able to struggle to leave, to reach southern America and start moving around like a merchant selling, salesman moving around with his products, later on he started buying and selling and going to the far away villages and cities, and this is how they made their money and their income, They came back, took their sons with them invested in building houses outside…. This is how it started and the famous houses and palaces now a days in Bethlehem belongs to these people who went their made some money came back, invested, built houses and so on , Showed off, took their relatives and cousins with them there , to expand their businesses . Some of them flourished in a matter of time and so he did have his own factory or whatever, he has shops and what have you and this is how the Bethlehem, Beit Jala and Beit sahour people moved to that area and we are talking as I said the 3rd and 4th generation of those people who are starting to come back of course with the help of the municipality we did have 2 conferences, Diaspora conventions , There is a Palestine Liberation Organisation office of Diaspora which is headed by Dr Nabil Shaath and so they are these connections and re connections and we are doing I think fine but we need a lot of work to contact these people, not everybody realises what we can do for them.
You want Palestinians outside to know their identity and their culture?
Yes, of course, Because they are the ones that are still keeping and protecting the old traditions, If you go there you will be surprised, they are protecting everything, they still keep it the way it is, Whether food wise, heritage wise , collection of what they took with them, photos of the old times and so on, and the manners of talking things that we almost forgot about but they are keeping it, preserving it and so that is what we want the bones to come back with.
Is it important to get the young people that our out connected to help them to realise that this is part of….?
Yes, Yes , we are telling them your ancestors did have homes here, houses, land, properties and so on, Come on, Use this, invest in your houses and so on like the experience of what we have here nowadays, The Alberto Qasis, This is a good clear example, all of them are exited about the idea, yes, why not, come back, buy our own houses even though it was sold a long time ago, Use it, renovate it, offer it to the people of the town to use it for whatever, Cultural or any centre for studies and what have you.
Now people are leaving the land today especially Christians, how does that make you feel?
Now a days we are talking about the younger generation leaving and they are from both Christian and Muslim, But the Christians mainly because life burden is becoming more and more difficult for a lot of us, whether Muslims or Christian. But the Christians are mainly in emigration because they have their connection with their families, with their relatives and so on there, so they are trying to at least, Like their ancestors build a new life a knew income because as you know the situation is very difficult, If you want to talk about it, leave the politics aside I am talking economically speaking you know. We are under the control of the Israelis whether we like it or not, Economically, politically and everything, We are just kidding ourselves when we say that we are liberated 100% but this is our destiny and we have to fight for it, fight for our land and so on, So a lot of these emigration are taking place again because of the economic and in some cases what I am personally and a lot of other people of course are worried about is the younger generation, Can you believe it, the younger generation with the access of the new world and this technology and what have you, seeing things and then he is not living his life, he wants to stay outside because he knows how the situation is.
Are you also loosing some of your best people because of this?
We are loosing the academics and so on who leave for outside just for the sake of improving their life and they don’t want to live in this life anymore, This is the tragedy in the long run if there will be no peaceful co existence, A real peaceful co existence and our independence somehow, not like the Trump things or the Netanyahu things and so on.
Is there anything the west can do to help Christians stay in the land?
Of course Europe can play a major role, but we don’t understand why the European are minding somehow their business, They are just supporting us financially and they know the truth and never the less they are not able to do anything, I don’t know why, Are they afraid of the United States? What, know body knows But the west we believe they know, Truly the western especially the western European countries mainly, they know the truth, they know everything, Sometimes it is Irony to see they are not doing as we expect them to do, Just simple things to recognise there is a Palestinian state and so on, They know it, they know that and if you are following up the news regarding the reaction of the Trump, the position of the European is so great but then again they are not in unanimous agreement, Look what Hungry is doing, Look what Britain is doing, They are supporting Trump and so on. Even Britain we are still asking her to apologise for what she has done to us, they didn’t! Even the people in England are supportive and sympathetic with our case and they know the truth but never the less they are doing nothing, On the contrary it is perhaps because of the influence of whoever is in control in England.
Are you making a difference here in Bethlehem and around the world?
Yes we are, You know better than me that Bethlehem is the centre of the world, It is the place where Jesus was born, It’s the place where everybody, Every Christian person, Even if he is not a Christian Looks to come and visit and make his pilgrimage to this place, Bethlehem is famous all over the world, It is thee Bethlehem, the little town of Bethlehem and as you know of course again Bethlehem depends on tourism, this is why we have all the hotels accommodations in the Bethlehem area, we have all the facilities that deals with tourism related again as you know we are not in control even of our tourism influx coming to the town, They are controlled by the other side.
Why do you do what you do?
I believe in it, I am a proud Bethlehem Palestinian, I belong here, my family is here, My ancestors are here, This is my home town, this is where I grew up, this is where all my Grand, Grand, Grandfather and so on lived here, This is my town, I have to have the message to all the people concerned, This is my roll, and as an historian this is what I am trying to do, we have a lot of documents that prove our existence in this town and all Palestine in general.
What is your prayer for the future of Bethlehem?
Hopefully things will be for the better for all of us, for the two people, The future is going to be for the benefit of the two people if they want to live in co existence, We will remain here, we are not going, we’ll fight for our independence, we’ll fight for our land and we are hopeful that the near future things will be brighter than it is now.
النور المقدس في بيت لحم
الطاه فادي قطان
الزمن يتغير